Ep1 - Eric Nicksick - building confidence through experience

In this conversation, Ross Cameron and Eric Nicksick delve into the intricate psychology of fighters, focusing on the balance between confidence and overconfidence, the emotional impact of losing, and the importance of effective communication in coaching. They discuss the structure of fight camps, the significance of sparring techniques, and the role of community and culture in training. The conversation emphasizes the need for leadership, accountability, and the continuous development of skills and mentality in fighters, all while upholding the standards and legacy of their gym.

Takeaways
Confidence is essential, but overconfidence can hinder training.
Building confidence often requires putting fighters in challenging scenarios.
Losing should be a painful experience that motivates growth.
Coaches must maintain a balanced emotional state for their fighters.
Effective communication is tailored to individual fighter needs.
Fight camps should be structured with clear goals and flexibility.
Sparring should focus on skill development rather than just winning rounds.
Post-fight reflections are crucial for continuous improvement.
A strong community and culture enhance the success of fighters.
Leadership in coaching fosters accountability and growth.

Time stamps
00:00 The Psychology of Confidence in Fighters
00:00 Its Not about the fight Intro
03:02 Dealing with Loss and Building Resilience
05:46 Coaching Dynamics: Communication and Emotional Management
11:36 Structuring Fight Camps for Success
16:24 The Importance of Sparring: Technique Over Intensity
21:43 Developing Fighters: From Amateurs to Professionals
27:41 Building a Supportive Gym Culture
31:41 Its Not About The Fight outro 

#mma   #coaching   #fighter  #psychology  #confidence  #training   #sparring   #community  #leadership

Transcript

Ross Cameron (00:10.168)
How are you, I'm great. So I'm here with Eric Nicksick from Extreme Couture and thanks for coming down and having a chat and visiting the gym. I want to talk to you about really some of the mental stuff that goes into the fight game. Not so much the what happens in the fight, but how do you deal with say a fighter that overconfidence or cocky or something like that? Well, you know, I think that

Confidence is something that you you need as a fighter as most guys need but the overconfidence and where it can be a problem is is It the lack of training because of that. Yeah, or they think that all I don't have to do these certain things because I've already You know done X Y & Z. That's where it becomes an issue, you know I think in dealing with those guys a lot of times it's it's it's simple conversations or not only that just

putting them in scenarios maybe where you can maybe break some of that confidence, you know, put them with, and that happens a lot of times too with failure and losing a fight and seeing that, the things I've been doing are more of an eye opener rather than, you know, something you have to rewrite the whole, the whole script again, know? Yep. Yep. And in the other end of that, you've got the guys that don't have it. And how do you, how do you build the confidence in those guys? Is it the same sort of thing where you put them in the scenario and build it?

Yeah, think that too, like where you're putting them in a situation where you know that there's guys in the room that maybe have a better resume. But you know that that kid can compete with those guys and put them around individuals that are going to elevate his game. And all of a sudden he starts realizing his full potential or knowing what he's capable of. But man, like I'll tell you what, this fight game is such a brutal sport because you can see a guy do everything correctly, do a camp.

perfectly and going to a fight and the outcome not not be desired. The chaos causes the issue. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. So there's like there's there's just like no method to the madness mentality to it. But I tell the guys all the time is I would rather do everything right. Leave no crumbs behind and understand that that at the end of the day, maybe the better man didn't win. Right. But I did.

Ross Cameron (02:32.352)
I exhausted every option that I had in front of me to make the position I have to win a fight. Do everything you possibly can to achieve what the goal was. But not actually get there is such a hard thing for people to take. Right. I would much rather have that than be the guy who half asked it and then lose and then like you have to lay your head on the pillow at night and go

man, I didn't, could have way more. Ask that question every night when they go to bed. I could have done, I should have done. Yeah. Well, you actually go through and force them to think about it and achieve it. Hard work does not guarantee success, it puts you in the best possible position to achieve it. Right. Like you're not guaranteed it, but I'd rather get all that out of the way, work hard because I've, we've had those.

you know, scenario, I would say any Danny Ege loss has been, you know, they hurt, but you also go, well, this dude did everything he could within his power, right? To achieve that win. exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I've had fighters that, that, uh, should win a fight. They do everything they to win the fight. And then they try something in the middle of fight that's not in the game book, hasn't, hasn't been in the plan. We've not rehearsed it. I just thought I'd give this a try.

And then you sit there and go, yeah. So the other thing, sort of all the mentality, it comes to, to dealing with a fighter directly after a loss when they're sitting in their back room and there's soul searching. How do you handle that? God, I don't think you ever get used to it. I really don't. And I tell guys all the time that, you know, I get frustrated when I, when I see.

guys or girls lose a fight and they immediately think about like going out. Yep. You know, like, Oh, well that sucked. But you know, the after party's over here and then we'll go grab like, no, like don't get used to losing. Like losing is going to happen to a by-product of competition. Yep. But don't be okay with it. Like it should hurt. Yeah. Right. Like it should hurt for a while. like you've never seen Chris Curtis lose a fight. Like this guy's a nightmare for however long. Right. I still remember.

Ross Cameron (05:00.672)
All my losses invites very, very, very early. I don't remember my wins. I remember my losses. Cause the pain, the hurt. you you, you deal with it as a coach. You try to be supportive and really moreover, soul search yourself as a coach, like the accountability, like what could have I done better? what areas could I've made improvements on for my fighter? Do we get out coached? Was it just a

you know, bad decision, luck of the draw, whatever, one of those things. but it's the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. And as a coach, gotta be somewhere right there in the middle. Cause that happens for me in the fight game. I'll have a guy on a card and he'll be lower on the card. Like we had Puna fight. he started the main card and then there was a fight in between us and we had Chris Curtis and Puna just came off a great knockout. And then there was a fight between us and then Chris lost.

in the last second, whatever close fight versus Roman Kapilov. But that could be either way. Like you can come in too high and lose focus because you're still high off a win or you can come in too low and you're depressed and your fighter, your next fighter is going to feel off that energy as well. like you say, as a coach, you're trying to find that middle ground so you're not hyping your guy too high. You're not pulling them down. You're trying to keep that middle ground. You're trying to keep the...

calmness, the focus, keep them in the same zone that they need to be in and you do do your job. And do you find that's achievable because you run processes? Yeah. But like, as you know, you're going to feed off of my energy as the the as a coach and a fighter, right? Like if your coach is like super nervous or upset or happy or whatever, you're going you're going to feed off of that. So it's those practices, I think are

are so important, not only for us as the coach, because of that feeling you're gonna draw off of me. like, Egate can walk in a room and I'll know what, like, how he is that day. That's how close we are as a coach and fighter. know, so a very important part of the process to me is maintaining your emotions as a coach. So as you were saying, you're close with your fighters.

Ross Cameron (07:22.442)
You spend a lot of time with them. You develop the relationship and you, you know how to push the right buttons at the right time and how to calm them at the right time. Is that a strategy you take in? it communication? Yep. think, you know, as a, as a young kid growing up playing football with my, you know, for my dad, I played quarterback and I remember through the youth program playing quarterback. would, I was a particular.

type of kid, would just yell at everybody. And you have 10 other players on the field, not everybody's gonna respond the same way. So at a young age, it really taught me how to communicate with certain individuals and how to get the best out of that individual. Some guys you might be able to yell at and the other guys you're gonna yell at and they're gonna curl up and die in the corner, right? So finding how they listen, how they communicate, how they react just takes time.

And then sometimes, you know, like, I'm very rarely am I ever going to yell at Danny gay, right? But then there's moments where I have to get in his ass and yell at him because of the seriousness of the situation. you find that that you tailor your, your, your communication system, the, the style of coaching, the techniques even to the, to the individual. So, you know, when they say fighting, fighting is an individual sport.

It takes a team to get them there, but you've got to have that communication to make sure the individual gets what they require. hundred percent, a hundred percent. So Sean Strickland, you're not going to be able to keep Sean Strickland focused on a minute in between each round. So we coach him in spurts. So I've always talked to him, you know, I don't know how many fights I've cornered him now, but I'll tell him, Hey, I don't need the entire minute.

but there is some pertinent information we're going need to get across in maybe a 20, 30 second span. I'll let you go be a madman after that. Yep. And knowing him and understanding his style and the way that he does fight, you get the most important thing off and then he's going to shut it down and go off and do his own thing. He's not going to listen to you anyway. Yeah. all see. I quite an interesting way of cornering people that I walk in there and I'm

Ross Cameron (09:47.234)
Breathe, get your heart rate down. Give you the three things I want you to do. I'm done. Right. Okay. You should have heard me. I'm out of there. Yeah. Because I, I don't want to be in their head. Right. I want them in their head. Sure. And if they get the information, then I'm happy. Right. But everyone's different. got to put it, you got to work it the right way. I'll crack jokes at sometimes some guys, you know, we'll get in the corner, I'll crack a joke or one line or Adam or something that might've been personal.

Yep. Just to kind of like, just take them off of the seriousness for a minute. And then there's times where you you have to remain locked in. You know, there's a moment there like, I remember when Francis was fighting Stipe and I got Francis on the stool after round one and I was like, this is nice. I've never had you on the stool before. You know, and he like kind of stops and looks around and he's like, yeah, no shit. Like, knocked everybody out the first round, you know? But there was a moment of like, you know, just so can kind of relax a second and have a little chuckle.

That might be all that's needed for them to stay in there where they need to have their mentality. So how do you, how do you keep the, keep the, the focus going over a camp when you're trying to keep the communication and the skill levels growing? Do you communicate daily with them? Do you have a plan that's written and structured? Do you, what's the, what's the, the

the best way you find to get the most out of each of you guys? Well, that's a great question. So I'll break it down to you from the start, starter camp. Usually what we'll do is we'll sit down, the team of coaches or whoever is involved and I'll ask the fighter to write out their schedule and we'll kind of base out like their day to days. We'll sit down and we'll watch tape. I'll have them watch tape first on their own. I'll watch tape on my own. Then we'll watch tape together. And then

we'll kind of talk about the approach. What are you seeing? What am I seeing? Right. and then whoever other coaches are involved, we'll compare our notes and we'll kind of write out a structure or game plan. And then what I'll do is, this is the other kind of key to this. think that's very important is you go back and you watch your fighter and then you try to game plan against your fighter versus what this skill set.

Ross Cameron (12:11.546)
So you're looking at what the guy's skill set's got, where his strengths and weaknesses are, what your guy's strengths and weaknesses are, and trying to game plan both sides of it so that you can then fill the hole in your guys and attack the holes in his. Exactly. So where we can find the path of least resistance into our game plan. And so many times that we've come up with game plans and this is the way we're going to approach and then all of a sudden...

something will pop up and we'll see a route. And we're like, oh, well, this guy can't get out of topside half guard. That wasn't part of our game plan, but we just saw it in the fight. Well, let's get to that. What we're going to call an audible here. Hey, we took the guy down, topside half guard he had no answer for. So let's get back to this position instead of boxing or kickboxing. It makes it easy for us to see the platform and move from.

You know, in lot of ways too, it's like football, if a play is working and it's hitting, why would I not go back to that play over and over until you can stop it? Yep. Right. So and then that's usually how we'll base out a camp. So then I'll look at the duration of the camps, you know, hopefully six to eight weeks. And then in between that time, I think it's very important, maybe halfway through the camp that we call it a D-Load week. That's where essentially you're just you're pretty much out of the gym completely.

it's almost a restart to camp. still keep up with all your cardio and your weight cutting and all that stuff, but maybe not a hard spa or maybe one hard practice that week, but it's like, Hey, go, go on a hike with your wife or go on, do something to just take your mind off of the fight. Go and sharpen the sword. Start sharpening the sword. know, know, coach falls. He's always preached to us about that. And I feel like that mentality has really helped a lot of our guys break up the monotony of an eight week camp.

You don't, don't peak too soon and you're able to kind of have a little break. Gives them that mental rest within the grind. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So, but I also want each fighter to have somewhat of control as well. Like they're the CEO of their company. I'm there to help kind of run the company with them. But at the end of the day, they're hiring and firing these coaches as they see fit, but they need to understand the structure as well.

Ross Cameron (14:30.542)
I don't, can, right now I know I have, I have five guys fighting in March. I know where everyone is at today, what their practice looks like for tomorrow, what they're doing for the rest of the week, what their sparring partners look like, because we, we, we structured it all the way till, fight week, know? So, um, it's very systematic and I think it's important, but when you have a good team around you and guys like, you know, and other coaches that are around you that understand the game plan and the goals and everything else, you know, I can leave town and do this.

And yeah, and the team, the team takes it over. So you were talking about sparring and we talked earlier about a hard sparring in a gym and sometimes you need it, but majority of the time it's, it's skill-based and then building towards what you want to achieve. Your thoughts on, on hard sparring every session. you know, I'm not for it now. I think.

when I was coming up in round extreme couture at a young age and watching a lot of that and then seeing it kind of unfold to where guys were getting out of fights or pulling out of fights because of, you know, they're getting knocked out in practice, right? And then seeing guys lose big fights because they had so much damage throughout their camp. know, those things started as a young coach, I started to take mental notes on those things and how can we prepare differently?

and

Yep.

Ross Cameron (16:55.864)
but made it a little bit safer, I think, for the guys' brain health. Made the guys get more technical in what they were doing? 100%. 100 % more technical, I think. And the one thing that people overlook is the defensive flaws. So when you have big gloves on the surface area, you can have your hand here and the glove will cover here. Not with four ounce or seven ounce gloves. So defensively, I think it helped change a lot of guys as well.

people don't realize it's a game of millimeters. And if you are used to sparring in 16 ounce gloves, it's gonna leave opportunities for someone who either bare knuckles or four ounce gloves sliding through the hole. So the

The development and you're sparring, I tell my guys that I try to teach them as a process that it's like playing the old street fighter game. I want to tag you more than you tag me. I'm scoring points. And then every time I'm doing it, I'm taking your health bar down. that's sparring. It's not a fight, it's a spar. So I'm trying to learn how to do that over time and get better at my skills so I can touch you. You can't touch me. And then you have some hard sparrings.

at the right time in your camp, rather than just go hard every time. Do you think, how do you get that across to you guys? How do you get that point that you want them to play the game in a sparring session rather than just, let's just go hard? Well, so I have a saying to the guys to show up to sparring with a shopping list, with a grocery list. And what I mean by that is the same way you show up to a grocery store. If you don't have a list, you usually go and just buy a bunch of shit you don't need.

you walk around endlessly throughout the store, you're there for a lot longer than you're supposed to be, right? But when you show up to the store with a list, you're direct, concise, grab everything you need, and you're in and out of that store. Yep. Convenient, right? That's how I show up, I'd be too long. Right. Yeah, mean, yeah, barely. But I tell guys that, and even the night before, or before even I do this all the time, I'm walking in the guy's cage, hey, what's on the grocery list today?

Ross Cameron (19:05.694)
coach, I wanted to land X amount of jabs. I want score a takedown every last 30 seconds. Whatever it is. Great. So they're showing up with a plan. Now, this is the thing that I think that I've noticed the most that I get on our guys about. Guys are so infatuated with winning rounds. Winning rounds, right? Like you're going to win what?

You're going to win practice. What are you going to And when you're in camp, I have a feeling like, okay, yeah, I want you to win your rounds for the more of the confidence side of things. When you're outside of camp, when are you working to develop new tactics, new techniques, new procedures? Yep. Right. And this is the time to do it. Yep. Cause you can try something and if it goes wrong, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Yeah. But what happens is, is guys,

they get into their egos and, man, that was a bad round, that was a shit round or blah, Well, it's okay if you're developing your southpaw or you're trying something new, I expect you to lose rounds. I want you to lose rounds because you're working on something new. I have a saying for the guys, said, everyone knows how to ride a push bike. So why haven't you won the Tour de France? Right, right, right. It's a very simple act, riding a push bike.

But we haven't won the tour de France. Why? Because we haven't tried it. We haven't developed it. You haven't built the skills. You haven't built the cardio. It's that process to get better. Sure. And if you take that mentality into your sparring, then you're looking at for all the things that you want to try. want to develop. it doesn't work. It doesn't work from that angle. What have you changed angles? What have you changed heights? What has changed levels? What have you start playing with it all? And then you come up with your own game that fits around what you want to do and your strengths and weaknesses. Yeah.

Well, I don't know. I just think that that's the mentality that we all have in this game. A lot of times is like the end game is to win the fight, right? But you have to let that go to develop these new things, especially outside of camp. Yep. Yeah. It's a, especially the younger generation gets stuck on the, on the, Gucci thing.

Ross Cameron (21:17.1)
Right. The thing that they just saw on Instagram and was, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to try that. That will kick or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cut wheel kicks. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. But the fundamentals, but yeah, but, but you're not actually skilled enough to try it yet. Yes. Do the right things, build the skills and you'll get there and then you'll be able to pull it off. The,

I like the saying you don't bench press, start learning how to bench press with 100 kilos. Right. Yeah. You start with the bar. Exactly. And building up a fighter over time.

Do you have checks and balances in place at certain times with certain fighters to just say, Hey mate, this, this is where I need you to back off or I need you to go forward or I need you to be focusing on this sort of thing. Yeah. I think a lot of times, you know, after the fight, having that debrief, talking about camp, talking about the fight, win, lose or draw. I think it's important to have that debrief, but it also gives you things for the, the, the after camp development. Yep.

And, you know, I use Danny as an example, just because I've had him for 22 pro fights, but we've, we've developed this relationship and he's made me a better coach. I believe I made him a better fighter, but, um, through that trial and error process, after every camp, we sit down and we'll go over like, Hey, here's some things I think we should work on outside of camp. So we go back and then we'll start doing some new things and start to try to build on that. And then the next time out, something different or something new.

But then what it does for us too Ross is it gives us things that now we can incorporate into the next fight camp. I've seen you develop this enough. Now we can add this in. So kind of funny story. You know, we worked a lot of Southpaw, you know, Dan's very good out of both stances, but he's not very known for it being a kicker, right? He's just big, big hands. And so in this, in this like past six months, we were working out of Southpaw, the same side head kit.

Ross Cameron (23:22.07)
And this guy is actually landing it in practice. He's feels great on the pads, you know. So here we are. We fight Diego Lopez on four hours notice. We're going into round two. we didn't watch much tape. Obviously they didn't get to watch much tape. so there was a position there where Dan was, was flanking him out of orthodox. And then we call it, you know, a drop step and he allowed him to, to funnel him into a position where he had.

the cage, the corner post. And I yell, same side, same side. And then on cue, throws the cross, kick comes right behind it. Diego takes his arms and like, doesn't cross block kind of like sticks his arms out. Shinn goes right over the head or right over the hands and shin bone across the forehead. And there was a second there where I'm like, holy shit, he just knocked out, know, Diego ends up taking them down, knock the head kick.

And ended up getting Dan ended up getting his back took for the whole second round. sat there in the corner. looked at Kaika Maka and I was like, Oh, I just screwed us man. felt the same side. Because we thought we thought it was there. But what happened was in my head, I'm like, what is something that they're not going to expect? Yep. Because Dan has never thrown this or done this in a fight, but he's developed the skills to develop the skill to do it. And

damn it, how do you not almost knock this guy out, but it landed. was so we go back. This is funny because I'm going in the stool going in around three and I walk over and I said, again, was like, Oh, my bad, bro. He's like, Hey, landed. So but I mean, had it not been for the development or that that tactic, you know, he'd been working on so so much we wouldn't have ever even called it. So we were talking earlier about developing amateurs and then into professionals and how you structure that.

Do you still work the psychology for your amateurs as you do for your professionals? I don't have a lot to do with the amateurs much anymore. But as of late, I've been really trying to make myself more available because I know eventually that that is the next crop of guys that are going to come through the gym. But it's also important because they do represent us. Whether...

Ross Cameron (25:38.9)
I'm their coach or they're, you know, at Xtreme, they're wearing our shirt. They're at Xtreme Couture. They are a part of our culture and they're a part of our responsibility too. And then furthermore, our standard is very important to me. The culture, the standard, the camaraderie, everything that we build throughout Xtreme Couture. And I don't want that to be watered down through, you know, the, you know, the other coaches. So I feel like by being there.

or speaking with them or being a little bit more hands-on, it helps them identify what we want at that higher level. So you're interesting. You were talking about community and the culture of the gym and all the rest of it. We've talked before about how important that is to you and to the gym and to the success of the gym.

Do you like to see the other coaches investing time into the community and the culture of the gym and the fighters community passing on their information and sharing and stuff and building together? Our gym success is the success of all of our coaches within that gym. Yep. 100%. Like Danny Davis was handpicked by me. There was guys that I knew that

I wanted to work with, I wanted to show up to work every day and be around these individuals that they were, they were not only going to make the gym better, they were going to make me better. Not only are they going make me better, they're going to hold me accountable. And then I was going to hold them accountable. And that infrastructure that we have at our gym, we can interchange any one of these coaches and you would never know who the leader was at the gym. Yeah. Everyone is able to grab the reins. They can do anything and everything.

I wanted to build something that we can all find success and we can all eat. Yep. Right. So, you know, when I get paid, I want the rest of my guys to get paid and they feel like they were paid equally and fairly. I don't, I don't have this like, you know, yeah, just, just don't have that mentality. I'm a leaders eat last guy. Yep. You know, if my team's eating, I'm eating and vice versa. So, so,

Ross Cameron (27:57.9)
Do you think that the growth of your team and the support of your team and the leadership style you have, is what I agree with, I think that's the most important thing, the gyms that go, I'm the god and this is all you've got, rather than you're there to support everybody, do their job, what do they call it? The servant leader. Yeah. Do you think?

There's a standard difference between gyms like that. I think there's there's a, there's, I feel I'm an, I'm in a position of servitude. I'm there to, to serve my gym. and I want to create more leaders throughout that gym. And I want to create success throughout that gym. I love seeing the parking lot, you know,

the cars in the parking lot. Fill up with Raptors and G wagons and Teslas and nice cars. Like I always joke around with Danny and the guys like the parking lot, the cars are starting to get better. Yeah, this is nice. Which means that we're all growing. Everybody's in there working and everybody's growing. But I also look at some of the things with like, I would say competitive or competing gyms, other gyms.

where they might only have one coach, one main coach, and that one main coach will kind of hire a couple of you know, guys here, here, and there. But what happens is, like, if a fighter doesn't get along with that main coach, they just leave. They're go elsewhere. And I never wanted that. Like there's so many great fighters at our gym that I don't even work with. Like we have Tatiana Suarez fighting for a title, trains at our gym. I've never held a pad for her. She's been at many of our practices.

But again, like I'm not her coach, but we care just as much about her success because she's coaching needs the village mentality. Yeah. And I think, I think that's, that's something that as a, as a, as an old school martial artist, that's where the growth in, in, this game is, is in the village mentality where everyone gets better. Everyone contributes to what's getting better.

Ross Cameron (30:13.73)
The standard of skill gets better. The standard of pay gets better. The standard of training gets better. Everyone's contributing. Well, think, I think people lose sight of, they think success is, is finite. That there's just, there's an end to it when it's truly infinite. And there's enough success for, for everyone. And it's enough success for, for it to go around for everybody to feel like they're getting what they need. But

for whatever reason, think people get so close minded on the fact of like, oh, I don't want this person to be successful or this is for that. And then it turns into like a bad energy system for you. Like you're rooting against shit. Like why? And it's a downward spiral from there. awful. It's awful. So I'm very much like trying to push the guys around me to, to realize their full potential. You know, I couldn't be happier for like,

You know, Coach Nate, Coach Nate has patchy mix. He has Tatiana. There's people that he has that are world champions. know, Danny Davis won his first world title with Sean Strickland in his first title fight that he's ever had. Right. There's Eddie Baraka. There's so many great coaches at a trinca tour that I want them to feel that same thing that I felt with like Francis and those guys as well. it's a, it's not, it's not the financial reward. It's the, the

Look what we've achieved together. 100%. 100%. And that was the whole goal in the beginning, right? Like when you created this thing and that's one of the things I am most proud about is that we don't have a lot of turnover at our gym either. Like a lot of the coaches that we've had at our gym are like lifers. know, guys that have been there damn near since day one or since I took over as gym manager. But I've been at a shrink since 2006. I took over as a gym manager, I think in 2011, 12, something like that. Been there ever since.

And as a fan of Randy Cachua back in the day, I remember when he opened the gym and I can remember where it got to. And you've taken it to the next level again. So it just keeps growing and growing and growing. And it's great to watch and see the success, not only of your fighters, but of yourself and the community that you've built. It's fantastic. No, 100%. And again, that goes back to the men and women within the doors, within the walls, know, the coaches that we have.

Ross Cameron (32:35.01)
the culture that we breed. Robert Fallis came in and he did such an amazing job of elevating that standard and setting a standard for us. And I remember in his passing, that was the first thing that we all spoke about was how do we keep Robert's memory alive? And that was to uphold the standard that he set for not himself, but us in the gym and as a whole. And I remember when I've been to your gym that on the wall you have the quote.

And that gets me every time because I'm a big put it on the wall. It's important to you put it on the wall to show people what it's about. And I think that the quote you've got up there is the man in the arena. I'm a big believer in that quote. It's amazing. Yeah, that was so I used to have the fight board. I put the fight board there and the wins and losses and the record and we put another quote down there and then the man in the arena went up there. I think that was after

It was a Kevin Lee loss. And I believe, I believe when Kevin lost to Tony Ferguson might've been, I just remember like the internet just going off. Like it was just such like a, the MMA fans can be the greatest fans in the world and they can be so awful at times too. And I remember just finding that quote and putting it on a canvas and putting it up hanging out that day. We had Ben an Askren here.

a while back and everyone remembers been getting knocked out by Masvidal but he won 19 other fights. Yeah, he did. But they all remember that one second. for it and a world champion too. yeah. You sit there and just go, well, that's perception. Sure. 100%. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming down and having a chat. Thanks for the invite. No worries. Thanks for coming. We'll see you again soon. Yes, sir.

Ross Cameron (34:35.022)
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